The inconsistency in the op is annoying me
Doctor spirit
Dark watcher
Hrrrrrrng
04/04/2019 05:44:53
Boozer said:
The inconsistency in the op is annoying me
Doctor spirit
Dark watcher
Hrrrrrrng
Hi Boozer 🙂
While I appreciate that this is a very unfortunate issue, there is a more pressing one. If you didn’t already know, we are in a game of forum mafia! How exciting!! As such we need to find the scum and make them pay!! I was wondering if you’d like to maybe give us some insider info and share with us who you, yes you Boozer, think is scum.
Thanks and kindest regards,
Your good friend Will
04/04/2019 07:06:38
dean said:
Aerodrome said:I feel like I raised some solid points at the bottom of Page 16.
No one's really given a good reason to be suspicious of me btw.
At the very least, your response of "yeah my posts dont look too good LOL. i legitimately thought he was mafia though plesse undertsand" didn't really help to change my opinion.
I don't agree with your post on page 16. You're looking way too hard on the day 1 lynch. Ok so there was lots of mafia on the train in the grand total of ONE game we had multiple factions in. What are the chances that is purely coincidental?
On my response about day one JEANS lynch, perhaps you've forgotten that in the last game I was absolutely certain that Blaze was mafia in the last game? Turns out day 1 scum reads are harder than I thought.
04/04/2019 07:29:04
Marioboro is mafia
04/04/2019 07:47:34
04/04/2019 07:47:34
Blaze said:
@dean i think it was bijou, he didnt exactly say it was bad but i probs took it that way, quotings bad on phone so will do later
I didn't say you were bad, all I said was you don't need to make long posts to be considered a good player.
OK about Longshot. I think I need a little help, can someone help walk Uncle Dean through what made Longshot's post on the night JEANS got lynched so bad? Am I tone deaf?
No, I agree with you. Nothing Longshot has done so far makes me think he's anti town.
Looking through posts over the last couple of days it seems that people are relatively undecided on Windkeeper. If you read my large post earlier in the day on the topic, what did you agree / disagree with?
I'll have a better look at your post tomorrow now that the site appears to be fixed.
FYI though unless Asa admits he made two wrong reads so far then I feel like it's unlikely I'll want to lynch anyone other than him unless any solid evidence on someone else comes up.
04/04/2019 12:08:59
Bijou said:
Blaze said:
@dean i think it was bijou, he didnt exactly say it was bad but i probs took it that way, quotings bad on phone so will do later
I didn't say you were bad, all I said was you don't need to make long posts to be considered a good player.
I think i took it as "Your post was unnecessary" lmao
04/04/2019 16:13:55
Blaze said:
I think i took it as "Your post was unnecessary" lmao
Wow what lol. I'm sorry. I was trying to encourage you to play in the style you feel is most comfortable for you rather than you feeling like you need to write a lot to make an impact.
Guess it didn't come across that way lol.
04/04/2019 20:02:43
Good morning friends!!
Bijou, that is a very large chip on your shoulder you have there. You would be OK lynching asa just because he won't admit that he's wrong?
04/04/2019 22:02:47
Bijou, that is a very large chip on your shoulder you have there. You would be OK lynching asa just because he won't admit that he's wrong?
04/04/2019 22:02:47
I can't believe that Bijou would bully Blaze like that.
@Blaze can you answer my other questions please I don't care too much that Bijou bullied you last week.
@Aerodrome you seem to have grossly oversimplified my argument; it's not about the fact that you voted for JEANS (I don't care about that) but more about why you acted as you did.
Oh well, let's ask a few questions.
04/05/2019 00:00:22
@Blaze can you answer my other questions please I don't care too much that Bijou bullied you last week.
@Aerodrome you seem to have grossly oversimplified my argument; it's not about the fact that you voted for JEANS (I don't care about that) but more about why you acted as you did.
Bijou said:I think this is the second time that you've said this. Who is the second player that asa's been wrong about? JEANS and...
unless Asa admits he made two wrong reads so far
Oh well, let's ask a few questions.
Aerodrome said:What is a "JEANS tactic"?
Now that I think about it, does anyone else think JEANS complaining about WOL spoilers is weird? Could it be a bait by pretending to be ignorant?
Definitely feels like a JEANS tactic.
Aerodrome said:In the previous game you (correctly) called out JEANS for acting "uncharacteristically humble" on Day 1. What happened in this game that led to this gut feeling? What was "especially off" about JEANS?
I'm down for a JEANS lynch tho. My gut feeling says he's maf (although that's what i said about Blaze in the last game and he ended up town lol). I usually have pretty good reads on JEANS tho but something feels especially off.
Aerodrome said:This was your next post nearly 48 hours later. What happened to your previous gut feeling?
I'd rather lynch BattleDolphin than Windkeeper.
Vote: BattleDolphin
04/05/2019 00:00:22
Aerodrome said:
Bijou, that is a very large chip on your shoulder you have there. You would be OK lynching asa just because he won't admit that he's wrong?
Are you really asking me this implying you don't know this is absolutely something I'd do?
Unless he has a way to prove he is town or someone else is proven to be anti town then I don't think I'll be budging on this.
dean said:
I think this is the second time that you've said this. Who is the second player that asa's been wrong about? JEANS and...
Me, obviously.
dean said:
I still don't like Windkeeper's posting habits; in his 12 posts he's either pushed pressure onto JEANS or said something like "I'm busy I'll post later" in every single one of them which isn't a good look. None of his single posts are bad in isolation but when your main contribution to the game is pressuring a townie and you've said NOTHING else worthwhile otherwise I think this is a little telling.
I also don't like Aero's who has explained very little of his thought / voting processes EXCEPT his pressure onto JEANS which sticks out a little now.
Is there any specific thing in your page 16 post that you want me to focus on regarding Windkeeper Dean? If anything you've spent more time talking about Aero than Windkeeper in that post.
I don't find Windkeeper's voting pattern to be unusual. As evidenced by his post I will quote below he was clearly reading what JEANS was doing from pretty early on and therefore I feel his votes were made with purpose at each time he did it.
Windkeeper0 said:
JEANS said:
at the very start I thought light was town and not a 2nd mafia lel
JEANS said:
i just assumed generic kingdom hearts whatever light good dark bad when I got the roles.
When I read the first one I assumed you meant before the game started but if it was when you got the roles like you said, then it seems like you can't be town. Since the alignment is the first thing you see on the dm you would have to see either light or dark for you to think that light is town and dark is mafia.
Vote:JEANS
The above quote shows he was actually thinking about what he was doing from pretty early on given that he remembered something JEANS had posted early game. It sounds to me like you're saying he just threw votes on him cheaply with no thought and I don't think this is the case.
If anything the most suspicious votes are those made by Aero, but since Aero plays like this every game it makes it annoyingly hard to read into. Having said this, I don't disagree that we should watch Windkeeper. Typically the "I'm too busy soz" sort of posts tend to come from anti town players. I just don't think you have enough evidence at the moment to sway me one way or another. By the way Dean, I have a bone to pick with some things I find suspicious about you too. Once we get past the Wind/Aero/Blaze discussion I'd be interested in your reply to some things I've noticed about you.
04/05/2019 02:05:55
Bijou said:You are not confirmed town?
Me, obviously.
Like, I probably think that you're town but there's no proof that you are 100% town.
WRT Windkeeper: fair enough; my post wasn't so much directed to you (more so Extra / JonCheee / Maribro / Aerodrome who were all null-reading Windkeeper) but I'm glad to hear your opinion.
Bijou said:Sure. With half the game away might as well make it sooner rather than later.
By the way Dean, I have a bone to pick with some things I find suspicious about you too. Once we get past the Wind/Aero/Blaze discussion I'd be interested in your reply to some things I've noticed about you.
04/05/2019 02:31:37
dean said:Yes, but from my point of view I know 100% I am town, therefore I find it suspicious he has read two players wrong. Makes sense yes?
Bijou said:You are not confirmed town?
Me, obviously.
Like, I probably think that you're town but there's no proof that you are 100% town.
dean said:
Sure. With half the game away might as well make it sooner rather than later.
Alrighty. Let me preface this by saying that I believe you are town, so take this as me just voicing some of my thoughts about things that have happening regarding you rather than me accusing you of being anti town.
Incidentally the main reason I think you are town is because of this post you made:
dean said:
Like I said before I haven't played World of Light (I've played very little Smash Ultimate in general) so when I first received my role and started reading through it I saw that I was a spirit I didn't know that I was a good guy until I finished reading the whole thing and saw that I wasn't on a team / had a town-based win condition of getting rid of the bad guys.
The reason I think this post makes you town is because I had a similar experience to you upon receiving my role and I find it unlikely this is something you would lie about just to make yourself seem town. I feel an anti town player wouldn't ever consider this kind of thinking.
HOWEVER, putting this aside there are a few things that have happened that if not for the above reasoning I would actually be reading you as anti town.
dean said:
I agree with Ghost, it seems like you're stalling for time and you've left us with very little time.
Speak or die.
L-1 in ten minutes. VOTE: JEANS
So this is where you voted for JEANS. He responded as requested and both you and I very quickly pointed out some inconsistencies immediately after he had responded.
However JEANS's next reply in my surprise actually responded believably to all the criticisms you and I had pointed out which was why I went cold on him again. In my mind things were starting to add up that he was town:
1. As you've already pointed out, essentially the entire game didn't believe him. So he was either being bussed or was town.
2. The doctor power he told us about worked very specifically under the ruleset we are playing here (two factions) and I found it unlikely he would have made up such a believable lie about having this power
3. Every criticism or objection we had raised in regards to his claim he was able to successfully respond to in a way that was believable. Did you think JEANS is capable of making up a lie that covers any holes we had pointed out? I didn't.
Given that he was claiming a powerful role like doctor and town already has an uphill battle with two mafia factions to deal with I find it suspicious you did not take him off L-1 given that we still had another day to work with before deadline.
I think you should have approached the situation more carefully given his doctor claim. Your vote was originally (and correctly) placed on him to get him to talk. But once he did AND was able to respond to all our criticisms in some fashion I believe you should have unvoted him to prevent him being hammered in case someone silly came along and went bang (thanks BEN GOLD).
However, the most suspicious thing is that in the absence of a doctor you didn't die last night and there was only one successful night kill. We know there isn't a doctor, so what happened last night to stop a kill?
Either both mafia factions targeted Ghost (unlikely given he was Dark aligned) OR a power prevented a kill from working. Usually night protection powers (ie. One-shot immune etc.) are anti town powers.
If I was mafia I would have 100% tried to night kill you especially with the knowledge that a doctor couldn't protect you. Therefore I find it suspicious you're still alive given that I think you were a very tempting night target and two different factions seemingly didn't target you.
What say you?
04/05/2019 04:10:17
dean said:
Aerodrome said:What is a "JEANS tactic"?
Now that I think about it, does anyone else think JEANS complaining about WOL spoilers is weird? Could it be a bait by pretending to be ignorant?
Definitely feels like a JEANS tactic.
A JEANS tactic is feigning ignorance. Yelling "spoilers!!" seemed to me like he was pretending to not know about the games flavour in a bid to seem town ("How can I be mafia if I don't even know WOL story!!").
dean said:Did you not find it slightly disconcerting that he was screaming "MODKILL ASA" over and over? It's fine if you didn't, but I did personally. Perhaps he took notes off you when you were mafia and wanting whoever it was at the time modkilled.Aerodrome said:In the previous game you (correctly) called out JEANS for acting "uncharacteristically humble" on Day 1. What happened in this game that led to this gut feeling? What was "especially off" about JEANS?
I'm down for a JEANS lynch tho. My gut feeling says he's maf (although that's what i said about Blaze in the last game and he ended up town lol). I usually have pretty good reads on JEANS tho but something feels especially off.
dean said:I don't remember, I probably saw a shiny new bandwagon to jump on. You of all people should know that not all of my votes are with the intent to lynch. My intent was probably just pressure. @Bijou I know exactly what you're like and I love that about you but in a moderately sized game I don't think it's entirely unreasonable to mistakenly scumread 2 players early in the game. Maybe asa just isn't as good as he thinks he is.Aerodrome said:This was your next post nearly 48 hours later. What happened to your previous gut feeling?
I'd rather lynch BattleDolphin than Windkeeper.
Vote: BattleDolphin
04/05/2019 04:54:57
Aerodrome said:
Maybe asa just isn't as good as he thinks he is.
Yes, if he comes out and says this then I don't mind laying off him.
04/05/2019 04:59:15
Bijou said:Yes, I'm OK with that. I'm just thinking that you said you wouldn't change votes from asa unless he admitted to being wrong about two players and it's hard to admit to being wrong about something that you don't know is wrong.
Yes, but from my point of view I know 100% I am town, therefore I find it suspicious he has read two players wrong. Makes sense yes?
Bijou said:Before the doctor claim: If he WAS mafia then being bussed is a definite possibility after light = town was brought to the fore. He was overwhelmingly likely to be lynched at that point; what good would it do for teammates to try and defend him only for him to be lynched (or nightkilled by the other mafia if his doctor claim was successful enough to stave off the lynch) and flip mafia? They end up looking very scummy and sometimes it's best to know when to cut your losses.
1. As you've already pointed out, essentially the entire game didn't believe him. So he was either being bussed or was town.
After the doctor claim: that's a bit more of a fair point.
It might be worth mentioning that a mafioso is only going to have one or two teammates in this game.
Bijou said:The doctor only protecting from one kill is standard, unless you were referring to something else.
2. The doctor power he told us about worked very specifically under the ruleset we are playing here (two factions) and I found it unlikely he would have made up such a believable lie about having this power
Bijou said:He answered some of my criticisms. The main ones that he didn't cover I brought up again in my post from later that night:
3. Every criticism or objection we had raised in regards to his claim he was able to successfully respond to in a way that was believable. Did you think JEANS is capable of making up a lie that covers any holes we had pointed out? I didn't.
dean said:
I don’t think you can read “if light and dark both try to kill the player you try to protect the protect doesn’t work” or whatever would have hypothetically been written in the PM and come out of this assuming that Light would be the good guys...
Phrasing is still an issue too. “Light and Dark” instead of “multiple kill attempts” would still tell him there are no town killing roles for no reason.
And I don’t care how much flavour the mod put into his PM surely there’s no way you can read a role and not understand “I save people I’m a town doctor” right away.
...
the huge absence between yesterday afternoon and today don’t do him any favours.
And I... still think they hold true.
I DO think that it's unlikely that '"if light and dark both target the person you try to protect your protect fails" -> oh light must be town!' is a reasonable thought process.
I DO think that the phrasing of specifying "Light and Dark" instead of "multiple kill attempts" is unusual.
I DID think that it was unlikely that he'd see "Spirit Doctor" and not know that he'd be a doctor for the spirits (if the phrasing in the thread header / death flavour of "Doctor Spirit" is the same as what's in his role PM though then that's a bit more understandable).
And it WAS anti-town to wait 24 hours between being put in the spotlight and deciding to claim. Let's pretend that Ben Gold is a functioning human being and didn't hammer when he did, we wake up on the Friday and decide to lynch someone else. I probably would have suggested policy lynching Ben Gold because he'd been useless up to that point and deserves it so we'd vote for him, he'd spring Innocent Child on us and then we legit would have had no time left to do much of anything else.
I was wrong but I think my actions were justified.
Off-topic but you seem confident that mafia can't daytalk? I think this is the second time you've brought up "JEANS couldn't have thought up this role by himself" as justification. Bald Man, let's say that I didn't say what I did say that makes you think that I'm probably town. Would you be more suspicious of me than say, Windkeeper0 or Extra: two other players that had voted for JEANS and were active after the doctor claim but did not unvote (or in Extra's case, only added his vote for the first time after the doctor claim)?
04/05/2019 06:44:47
dean said:The doctor only protecting from one kill is standard, unless you were referring to something else.
I was referring to the power failing if both factions target the same person (which is also what you're saying just in different words).
For JEANS to lie about this he would have had to of taken this in consideration before he revealed it which I find is highly unlikely he would have done so.
dean said:Phrasing is still an issue too. “Light and Dark” instead of “multiple kill attempts” would still tell him there are no town killing roles for no reason.
Okay I think I see the issue here. So what you're saying is:
In a standard game if the doctor protects a player the protection is only good for one kill?
So if a mafia team kills a player and they also get vigged on the same night then the player still dies?
I'm just putting it out there, but that's news to me. I thought whoever the doctor protected was immune to being killed that night unless there was a strongman or something similar.
In that case it's highly likely Invisi wasn't aware of this either and that's why he specified it. But now that you've said this I understand why you had an issue with the praising.
dean said:I was wrong but I think my actions were justified.
Yes I think so too, I just wanted to hear what you had to say about it because it gave me slightly negative vibes on the surface.
dean said:Off-topic but you seem confident that mafia can't daytalk? I think this is the second time you've brought up "JEANS couldn't have thought up this role by himself" as justification.
I hadn't even thought about day/night talk for mafia factions actually. I suppose I should have considered if he had someone helping him at the time but to me he just felt so alone in defending himself that him having any help wasn't really a consideration for me. From your point of view though it would have been reasonable to assume I was teamed with him, so I can see that you would have taken this defense of him with a grain of salt coming from me at the time.
In regards to my opinion on whether there is day talk or night restricted only then I'm not too sure. Asa said in a previous game that day talk for mafia is unconventional and given there are two factions it would only make it even harder for town to win if they can day communicate, so it might be limited. Having said that though in Invisi's revival game that he ran recently there was day talk, so it's a possibility.
Anyway, you've cleared up my doubts regarding your voting / lack of removing votes, however I notice you didn't mention anything about me saying you're still alive being suspicious.
Do you have any thoughts on why there was only one kill last night and why you weren't targeted?
04/05/2019 06:45:59
Aerodrome said:Has he done this in a game before?
A JEANS tactic is feigning ignorance.
Aerodrome said:Which game was this?
Perhaps he took notes off you when you were mafia and wanting whoever it was at the time modkilled.
04/05/2019 06:46:55
dean said:
Bald Man, let's say that I didn't say what I did say that makes you think that I'm probably town. Would you be more suspicious of me than say, Windkeeper0 or Extra: two other players that had voted for JEANS and were active after the doctor claim but did not unvote (or in Extra's case, only added his vote for the first time after the doctor claim)?
No, I wouldn't be. I just wanted to ask you about it because I don't feel like anyone else is likely to ask you these things since I think people are actually afraid of calling you out lol.
04/05/2019 06:49:25
Bijou said:Repeating what was brought up on the night JEANS was lynched, but it's the first paragraph in the MafiaWiki article on Doctor.
I'm just putting it out there, but that's news to me. I thought whoever the doctor protected was immune to being killed that night unless there was a strongman or something similar.
In that case it's highly likely Invisi wasn't aware of this either and that's why he specified it. But now that you've said this I understand why you had an issue with the praising.
Bijou said:I notice you didn't mention anything about me saying you're still alive being suspicious.Sorry I was writing my response as I was reading your post and I got to the 1-2-3 bit and finished that and my brain was just like "OK done". It was hometime anyway.
I don't like speculating about night actions because there's WAY not enough information to work with. What could have happened?
1. Dark Mafia did not take action (night did go until deadline!)
2. Roleblocked by either town or Light Mafia
3. Protective role, either bulletproof (probably mafia), mafia doctor, mafia rolestopper, commuter or a second town protective role (probably jailkeeper)
4. Redirection? If both mafia target the same townie and a bus driver swaps that townie and Ghost then that's only one kill. There are one-sided redirectors as well.
As for why I, specifically, didn't die? I wish I knew. Mafia might be wary of other roles that dissuade them from making obvious kills, like Watchers. Maybe WIFOM if they thought the other faction would shoot me. Maybe they think I'm bad and all my Day 1 reads were wrong so they thought I'd come in Day 2 and try to get Maribro lynched again. Otherwise Roleblock / redirection are possibilities.
04/05/2019 07:04:14
dean said:
As for why I, specifically, didn't die? I wish I knew. Mafia might be wary of other roles that dissuade them from making obvious kills, like Watchers. Maybe WIFOM if they thought the other faction would shoot me. Maybe they think I'm bad and all my Day 1 reads were wrong so they thought I'd come in Day 2 and try to get Maribro lynched again. Otherwise Roleblock / redirection are possibilities.
Yeah, there are so many possibilities that we don't know about. I already knew this before I asked you, but I was just curious as to what your response would be. Hypothetically if I wasn't already town reading you then I wouldn't have been confident using this as evidence to you being anti town anyway, but it's good to know we're on the same page.
Just figured you being alive was a bit of an elephant in the room and deserved to be addressed in some manner. Appreciate the response.
04/05/2019 07:21:33
Bijou said:
Aerodrome said:
Maybe asa just isn't as good as he thinks he is.
Yes, if he comes out and says this then I don't mind laying off him.
i dont think this even is a good excuse to lay off him. considering all the mistakes hes making, even if he said he isnt as good, many people would be sus.
but, im saving my own judgement. things could change.
04/05/2019 09:15:52
ThatLaggyPerson said:
Bijou said:
Aerodrome said:
Maybe asa just isn't as good as he thinks he is.
Yes, if he comes out and says this then I don't mind laying off him.
i dont think this even is a good excuse to lay off him. considering all the mistakes hes making, even if he said he isnt as good, many people would be sus.
but, im saving my own judgement. things could change.
If you think he's suss I encourage you to vote him.
04/05/2019 13:51:47
laggy never going to give his opinion ever
04/05/2019 15:30:23
04/05/2019 15:30:23
Activity posts in English.
04/06/2019 11:13:55
04/06/2019 11:13:55
Why did your banner colour change from blue to grey Dean?
04/06/2019 11:30:45
04/06/2019 11:30:45