World of Light themed Mafia - Game Over, Dark Faction Wins!

Wii U: Oceanblue44

dean said:

Maribro said:
Look I can't explain everything, something just felt off about it. These two players know better than to vote for "No particular reason" beyond the first vote in the game. It just strikes me as far too convenient that they're both either unwilling to explain their vote or have actually both voted for a strong player, who hadn't done anything particularly suspicious, for "No particular reason". You tell me dean, why don't YOU find it suspicious?
For why they would vote for Bijou together and not be suspicious?
I’ve got the benefit of hindsight on my side so I’m not sure how genuine I come across.
a) They were holding their cards close to their chest for the time being (which we can see now was what asa was doing)
b) They were too lazy to explain (Aerodrome)
c) They didn’t want to get their head ripped off by Bijou in a debate (Aero’s probably here as well)

I mean this is all well and good now that people have since posted about stuff but at the time was I really so wrong for calling them out? Yes they could have been holding things to their chest. Yes they could just be too lazy to explain (yeah that's really helpful to town). I don't see how me calling them out and encouraging them to go into more detail about why they've voted for Bijou is so wrong. Do you think I'm suss for this?

dean said:
This happened a bit after some back-and-forth between Bijou and I in which he was obviously saying some strange things (if there are eight mafiosi in this game I’ll set an akubra on fire). Most of the thoughts that asa outlined in his big post actually went through my head at some point; I just didn’t draw the conclusion that Bijou was mafia from it at this point of time.

Did you read the exchange between Bijou and I and think that Bijou said absolutely nothing suspicion-worthy?

I don't recall thinking anything Bijou said being particularly suspicious. I'll give you strange but I don't think any of it was necessarily suggestive that he is an anti-town player. Talking about game set up just made him look kinda naïve to me.

dean said:
So you thought that because they hid their reasons for voting that they would be suspicious? If you think that they are among the most likely to be mafia, can you explain why they would attract attention to themselves in this way?

Well they didn't attract much attention did they? I'm the only one that called them out on it. Most of the attention this day has been on the following:

1) Asa character claiming
2) Game setup
3) JEANS
4) dean vs. Maribro

NOT on

1) asa and Aero's vote on Bijou

I have no idea why either of them did what they did, but they didn't attract any attention for doing so. I don't get why you'd ask me why they'd do it if it's apparently risky but it clearly hasn't been an issue for either of them this day phase. Bijou was the only other person who found it suss besides me and he's been too busy arguing with you about me and my alignment to get anywhere with pressuring them. Ideally I'd like to see them both pressured more but it looks like one of them (asa) will likely be lynched this phase anyways if he doesn't come through with the goods.

dean said:
(where the HELL is part 2 btw asa? It’s been nearly three days and I know you hate inactivity)

Maribro said:
Well I hope your suspicion of me doesn't last into later phases, I'll be damned if I have to keep defending myself against you for the rest of the game. It's damn tiring.
That’s OK I haven’t lived beyond night three before I don’t think this game will be an exception.

Grim.

dean said:

Bijou said:
So far he hasn't really even been able to hold a candle to you in terms of debating. In fact I feel like on certain points he's actually giving up on even trying to argue with you.

...

I don't know, is it unusual to town read someone who is seemingly struggling? I just don't see him as a threat at the moment and I don't feel like your main arguments against him prove he's anti town.
You see, if I'm asking him questions about why he's acting strangely or contradicting himself and he doesn't answer them well then I think the natural inclination would be to scumread that person, and it seems you've chosen to do the opposite.
I think that if he was innocent and all his actions have been in good faith then he'd be more capable of defending them?

I don't think I've contradicted myself besides apparently one thing I said about my playstyle this game? I also explained what I meant by that apparent "contradiction" and you've seemingly ignored it and brought it up again. I also don't know what you mean by that last sentence? I've tried my best to defend myself and obviously it isn't good enough but it's not like I have anything I can say that can exonerate me. It's day 1.

dean said:
I feel like I've convinced myself through having this debate but that's not much if I haven't convinced other people. In case people were tl;dring the exchange between Maribro and I, I'll summarise my main points here:

1. He's sucked-up to Windkeeper with very little prompting and town-read him in this game which is a complete flip in mentality from his previous game where he's said "Always see him as a danger due to never losing a game (I don't think??) so I'm cautious. Hasn't done anything suss yet but I have a hard time trusting him because of his gigantic power level." and "Much like MrL, has acted in a very townie fashion. I like his posts and I think they come from a good place. I just find it hard to trust such a strong and versatile player."

If we're hardcore metagaming about the previous game, can I remind you that you scumread me for at least the majority of the game. Pretty much until BattleDolphin got lynched and subsequently confirmed me as town. I distinctly remember you calling for town to lynch me over him in the spectator chat. You were wrong about me then and you're wrong about me now.

dean said:
2. When prodded about said strange behaviour he claims to have "openly announced" that he's coming into this game with a different mindset. He has two posts which might indicate this: an early post in which he was "really inspired to think harder about why people do what they do" and a post many days later (after I called him out for acting strangely) that says "I'm trying to trust my instincts and reads a bit more."

I mean, I can find more examples of my posts suggesting I'm listening to others' points of view about last game and learning from that. Would you like me to quote those for you?

dean said:
2a. When I asked him WHY he's coming into this game with a different mindset he seems to have ignored me.

Don't recall you asking me why, would love to see where this was asked. Anyways, if you wanna know why I'm coming into this game with a different mindset, it's simple. I don't think I'm a very good mafia player in the grand scheme of things. My game on MU and seeing people discuss the last game on here kinda showed me I don't really look at things as in depth as I could. I absolutely glossed over a lot of important things and for example, I don't think I should have allowed Windkeeper to be lynched on the day he was lynched. That was definitely a misplay from me tbh, I should have tried much harder to stop that from happening cos I KNEW that JEANS was scum. I wanna get better at this game and improve and learn. Idk how this wasn't obvious through some of my posts already but yeah, this is why.

dean said:
2b. I think that these statements are, to an extent, mutually exclusive; if I type "instinctive" into Google I receive a result "done without conscious thought" so I would say that it would be hard to trust your instincts and also think hard, so he was probably just saying whatever was convenient at the time to justify his behaviour.

Probably just worded it badly then, but I did explain what I meant by these two posts and you apparently ignored that.

dean said:
3. His other main rebuttal seems to be that he's trying extra hard to help town win which is both extremely vague and has little evidence, especially in this game where lynching opposing mafiosi is an excellent way for a mafioso to "help town win" while helping his own faction.

Wouldn't really call it much of a rebuttal, anyone can say they're helping town win really. I just feel like the way I've approached this game and the fact I'm wanting to improve at the game would suggest that I'm probably pro-town this game.

But if I can't get votes here then I'll chill for a bit and then move on, maybe I'll wait to see if Maribro responds to my post from Saturday night since it seems he wasn't online yesterday.[/quote]

Whoops, didn't mean to post that. That last paragraph is dean's post, not mine

03/25/2019 03:39:18

Wii U: ShadowRhyno

3DS: 0001-3329-7885

And I think you've shifted the goalposts from your original argument. Your original statement was "The games where Maribro plays the most confident are the ones where he is mafia because he has game information to work with and as a result he is more sure of his posting.", and when I asked you to explain you gave some quotes and said "This is all rather self-doubting language honestly." and "When I played with him in his mafia team he wasn't like this at all, all his posts were confident and didn't use uncertain language like this.". So is language important or not?

Could I just point out that I'm not even trying to defend Maribro? I'm not really trying to argue he's town moreso than have a conversation with you explaining why I've been town reading him so far.

The way you say I've shifted my argument implies that I was trying to argue with you to change your opinion which is not the case at all.

Incidentally though I think that you and I agree on some points. Clearly you recognise Maribro is playing differently to normal which is where your scum hunting begins.

The difference of opinion here is I believe the reason he's playing differently is because he has no help and is down on confidence whereas you've seen his plays so far as anti town.

I don't want to go back through previous games finding quotes to vaguely back this up or anything, the meta gaming here has gone waaaaaay outside the scope of anything I'd intended to go into.

The general point here is I've been perceiving him as weaker than I expect him to be and usually I associate this with having less power (therefore most likely being town).

You've really gone out of your way to argue your point though and I don't want it to seem like I'm trying to sway you away from it moreso than just explain why I've read him that way so far.

If we want to get into this then DID call out JonCheee, Aerodrome and asa within the first few days of the game starting. Was he not active enough in pushing these lynches for you?

I don't think Maribro's lynch pushing presence has been very strong at all. I'd say his impact so far with the game's direction has been minimal.

You see, if I'm asking him questions about why he's acting strangely or contradicting himself and he doesn't answer them well then I think the natural inclination would be to scumread that person, and it seems you've chosen to do the opposite.

I think Maribro being honest and saying he doesn't know how to respond to you is a sign of defeatism.

I've noticed that when a townie gets put through the pressure cooker they tend to lose heart and give up trying whereas an anti town player is more likely to be motivated to lie to cover something up if they're not sure how to answer it honestly.

But I understand where you're coming from. You're focusing on the data whereas I'm considering (what I interpret) the emotion behind the post as part of my reading, which is why it's difficult to express why I'm thinking something when you ask me for evidence to back it up.

Anything online is going to be read in different tones by different people and it's purely open to interpretation to each individual.

Anyway Dean, I see what you're saying and I think you're making good points, I'm just not convinced Maribro is our best day one lynch though. What do you think of our other lynch options as a matter of interest? You've been focused on Maribro for a few days and I'm really curious on your views on other players too.

Lol mind you after I go and post that Maribro actually made a really strong rebuttal post apparently while I was typing mine up on my phone.

That's the sort of posting I expect from you Maribro. Will maybe have to reconsider what I was perceiving from you as a defeatist attitude lol.

03/25/2019 04:10:38

Wii U: Oceanblue44

Bijou said:
Lol mind you after I go and post that Maribro actually made a really strong rebuttal post apparently while I was typing mine up on my phone.

That's the sort of posting I expect from you Maribro. Will maybe have to reconsider what I was perceiving from you as a defeatist attitude lol.

Sick of getting rolled by dean, this is my power level 💪💪💪

03/25/2019 04:25:22

dean

81+ tourneys

Wii U: dean7599

3DS: 1435-4425-6023

I suppose if I post walls I'm going to get walls in response. Gimme a bit. Unless this takes me past go-home time in which case we all get the rest of the day off.

03/25/2019 04:30:58

Blaze

41+ tourneys

Switch: SW-4733-6751-5217

Page 2: Mostly just fluff to me, asa character claiming is the only thing that really sticks out to me, can’t tell if it was a shitpost or not, if it was a shitpost I don’t know why the mods would get all up him, JEANS wanting him to be modkilled for it, claimed it to be a ‘hate boner’ for him, possible coverup?

Page 3: Asa and jeans arguing etc, doesn’t really point anything out to me, JonChee voting me without any explanation seems a bit yikes to me, someone mentioned he might be trying to start a train on a semi-inactive/weak player
Page 4: BD posting “why is windkeeper so good at looking town lmao” really sticks out to me, there was no reason to say that, so what was the intent? IF theyre both maf it’s a possibility BD is trying to distance himself from windkeeper. (on that note could be a possible asa + jeans play, they seem really far apart now but who knows? Asas “Yeah I agree with Aero, vote: Bijou” possible scum trying to buddy an enemy player?
Page 5: JEANS WoL what the fuck is dharkon bullshit. Possibly trying to take attention away from him as he could be possible one of todays lynch. Asa voting for JEANS, possibly another distancing technique?
Page 6: Mr L saying im not contributing// literally how many posts have u made this game buddy? LT voting JEANS then immediately unvoting, underlying meaning maybe?
Page 7: (Not necessary but extra mentioning im clueless townie, I know it seems like that but I realllly wanna contribute this game so give me some time) I actually don’t know the chances that JEANS didn’t know who Dharkon was, the games been out for almost FOUR MONTHS. Its his brothers switch so wouldn’t it be likely hes looked up atleast some content of it? Idk that’s just my take on that. Still waiting on Part 2 from asa he really left us on a cliffhanger
Page 8: Literally seems just like fluff to me, peoples thoughts on other people, if Im correct people are pushing pretty hard on Maribro? He seems like hes leaning town to me tbh.
Page 9: I cannot follow this im soooo confused, just seems a lot like who are we getting weird vibes from. Also is there a chance that Invisi would even out the stronger and weaker players to make the game fair and balanced, thought that might be a thing to think of when thinking of the stronger players.
Page 10: Im getting big scum vibes from dean tbh, don’t know why, all I know is hes pressuring maribro realllyyyy hard. That might be a dean thing, I haven’t been in enough games to know though

I think for today Asa or JEANS, I want to hear more from Ben Gold, im still mad he accused me of no contribution.

For todays lynch Asa or JEANS would be the safest play*

How do you guys constantly post text walls i feel exhausted

03/25/2019 04:50:14

Boozer

186+ tourneys

Wii U: DevilBoozer

3DS: 4124-5214-3831

Perhaps lack of interest? Youd think as mafia hed be one of the people whod benefit a lot from being able to be told what to post, unless hes super inactive out of a fear of being caught as mafia.

I guess ill throw my vote onto asa. Times running out for part 2 and we need to lynch someone !

Vote: asa

03/25/2019 04:51:04

ThatLaggyPerson

6+ tourneys

Switch: SW-7156-6180-5821

Wii U: ThatLaggyPerson

you gotta remember what asa "accidentally" claimed earlier and take that into consideration. that said, i wouldnt be opposed to a asa vote, especially if part 2 doesnt arrive.

also y'all need to stop posting walls, its just getting confusing

03/25/2019 05:11:18

Wii U: ShadowRhyno

3DS: 0001-3329-7885

dean said:
I suppose if I post walls I'm going to get walls in response. Gimme a bit. Unless this takes me past go-home time in which case we all get the rest of the day off.

Lol it's only polite to respond in kind.

03/25/2019 05:21:51

dean

81+ tourneys

Wii U: dean7599

3DS: 1435-4425-6023

Maribro said:
I mean this is all well and good now that people have since posted about stuff but at the time was I really so wrong for calling them out? Yes they could have been holding things to their chest. Yes they could just be too lazy to explain (yeah that's really helpful to town). I don't see how me calling them out and encouraging them to go into more detail about why they've voted for Bijou is so wrong. Do you think I'm suss for this?

No, I don't think that this explicitely made you suspicious.
I raised this point to rebut you when you said that you were going to think harder about why people do what they do, which was a point you brought up to justify why you were acting differently from the last game to this one, and that you were trying EXTRA hard to help town win.
Why did you think: "Kinda gives me the feeling they both know something we don't???" What did you think that they know that we don't? (you seemed to come to the conclusion that they were probably mafia at this point judging by you adding them to your suss list; how did you come to this conclusion?)
I don't think it helps for you that when I prodded you about this first your response was "Look I can't explain everything, something just felt off about it.". This doesn't really help you in your endeavour to show that you were going to think harder about why people do what they do, or that you were trying extra hard for town.

Maribro said:
I don't recall thinking anything Bijou said being particularly suspicious. I'll give you strange but I don't think any of it was necessarily suggestive that he is an anti-town player. Talking about game set up just made him look kinda naïve to me.

And you think that there was no way that ANYONE else in the game could have interpreted his statements as even slightly suspicion-worthy? I find this very hard to believe.

Maribro said:
Well they didn't attract much attention did they? I'm the only one that called them out on it.

It seemed like a pretty soft call-out - you didn't ask them any questions or vote for them it was just kind of like "hey you guys did this and I thought it was weird".

Maribro said:
I also explained what I meant by that apparent "contradiction" and you've seemingly ignored it and brought it up again.

Yes, because I disagreed with your interpretation. "I'm going to think about it and go with whatever I decide in that moment."? That's most certainly not how I interpreted the two statements.
I think that if you're "clearly announcing" to the thread that you're going to be playing weird then you'd want to do it in a way that brings about less misunderstandings, not in a "I'm going to be analysing posts and votes" -> gets called out for being weird -> "btw I'm going to be following my instincts" kind of way.

Maribro said:
If we're hardcore metagaming about the previous game, can I remind you that you scumread me for at least the majority of the game. Pretty much until BattleDolphin got lynched and subsequently confirmed me as town. I distinctly remember you calling for town to lynch me over him in the spectator chat.

This is completely irrelevant. I scumread you when you were town in one game (a game in which you HAVE acted differently to the current game! a game in which I didn't even participate in!) so that means you're town this game? Am I supposed to never scumread you again?
Why did you respond by trying to make me and/or the town question my scumreading skills instead of addressing the argument?

Maribro said:
I mean, I can find more examples of my posts suggesting I'm listening to others' points of view about last game and learning from that. Would you like me to quote those for you?

My argument was that when you were called out for acting strangely you said that you had CLEARLY announced MULTIPLE times that you said that you were going to be acting differently. If these announcements are so cryptic that I didn't pick them up, or that you hadn't mentioned them up to this point, then I don't think they're worth discussing.

Maribro said:
Don't recall you asking me why, would love to see where this was asked.

Second post from the top on Page 9. LITERALLY the first word in the post.

Maribro said:
Anyways, if you wanna know why I'm coming into this game with a different mindset, it's simple. I don't think I'm a very good mafia player in the grand scheme of things. My game on MU and seeing people discuss the last game on here kinda showed me I don't really look at things as in depth as I could. I absolutely glossed over a lot of important things and for example, I don't think I should have allowed Windkeeper to be lynched on the day he was lynched. That was definitely a misplay from me tbh, I should have tried much harder to stop that from happening cos I KNEW that JEANS was scum. I wanna get better at this game and improve and learn. Idk how this wasn't obvious through some of my posts already but yeah, this is why.

Mafia Universe was not a recent occurance at all, and you mentioned in the thread for the last game that all you had to do was lynch Windkeeper and JEANS in any order to win. That was 100% correct and that's exactly what you did, and now you're sadboying about it?

Bijou said:
Could I just point out that I'm not even trying to defend Maribro? I'm not really trying to argue he's town moreso than have a conversation with you explaining why I've been town reading him so far.

Alright then, I will take the liberty to not respond to this post and move on with the game because my head can only take so much Maribro.
Actually I guess I will say one thing.

Bijou said:
I've noticed that when a townie gets put through the pressure cooker they tend to lose heart and give up trying

I think the main players you've seen placed under actually noteable pressure to be lynched have been Laggy, LachlanF, Corvid, Krasic and the legendary HydroPimp (gone but nor forgotten), not exactly a group of tryhard players.

Bijou said:
What do you think of our other lynch options as a matter of interest? You've been focused on Maribro for a few days and I'm really curious on your views on other players too.

10 minutes to hometime so I might be brief.

JEANS reasonably neutral, I think that his reactions towards asa were in-character and as someone who hasn't played WoL I can relate to the "what is a daikon" thing as I had similar thoughts.
I am annoyed that he seemed to miss this question from me though:
JEANS said:
but nah Im gonna get around to beating it oneday im like 10 hours in or somemshit er last guy I beat was Galleom so I really have no idea what a dharkon is. I dont even know galeem is tbh and at the very start I thought light was town and not a 2nd mafia lel.
I have ZERO idea about anything World of Light related so bear with me. Why did you think that light would be town? Is ten hours into the game not far enough to establish that light would be an antagonistic force?

MrL maybe slightly more town-leaning because I think he'd be tryharding more if he was mafia (not good reasoning I know) but I wish he had said SOMETHING at least. Does he still think that JEANS is the most suspicious player?

asa I was neutral and then he disappeared.

I'd still be interested in Windkeeper addressing some points in one of my previous posts. It's been a few days and I got side-tracked by Maribro but I haven't forgotten.

Jon/Longshot idk sorry I'm out of time and I don't like phone posting so I'll see you all tomorrow you're free from Dean for the rest of the day.

03/25/2019 05:59:40

asa

93+ tourneys

3DS: 0903-3023-5459

Bijou said:
I'm happy to just lynch Asa.

Legitimately if he doesn't make his much anticipated part 2 post by tonight as he promised then I reckon he's had enough time.

When did this become a reason for my lynch?
Yes, I hate inactivity, which I have been guilty of the last few days
Part 2 is coming. If it's not out by end of tomorrow then go ahead and lynch me.
I'll keep it short for now and first address bijou's reply to my post.

You spend a considerable amount of time telling me that a 4-4-8 game isn't going to happen, yet now you're implying I have extra information (about the game potentially being 4-4-8).

Make up your mind, you can't have it both ways. Which is it?

Let me rephrase to make it more clear -
I don't think that a 4-4 setup is mathematically possible. So I wasn't even considering the possibility of this.
Then you and a few others come along and are worried about the possibility of 4-4, which means that something has given you reason to believe that this is possible, suggesting to me that you have extra information.

I'm not too sure what both ways means? Do you get what I'm saying here

The only thing Aero did prior to posting was vote me and say nothing. So essentially you were agreeing with that?

I know above this you mentioned he probably voted me for certain reasons, but you don't know what he's thinking for sure. Nobody knows for certain whatever Aero is thinking.

You seem pretty certain you know what he's thinking, perhaps you're in a team together?

I explained why I thought this was suspicious, and made an educated guess based on context why I think aero voted you.

Ghostbone said:
Town is actually more powerful in a town vs maf vs maf setup because mafia have to kill each other too.

A 10v3v3 game is obviously a lot easier than a 10v6 game.

Yeah, this. Ghost articulated it better than me.

Yeah okay, I've never played in a multi-mafia game before.
I have no idea how the balance plays out hence why I looked into similar setups

It's hardly letting it slip, anyone who was going to discuss it would have already done by that point.

A lot of people seemed confused as to why we should discuss it at all. So I revealed why.

And hey look it's working, look at the novel you wrote in response to it.

Mentioning the possibility to suggest caution and to generate discussion is fine.
However, as I outlined before, my point was the fact that you were worried about a 4-4 setup I had no reason to believe was a mathematical possibility based on my examination of past setups lead me believe that you knew something I didn't.

Bijou - page 6
As a super low key play too if I'm actually right about the setup then the only people that know for sure how many mafia there are
(ie. the anti town players) would believe I'm on the other mafia faction and start voting for me or calling me out.

I dont like how you're trying to flip this back onto those who are suspicous of you either.
"Low key play", "if I"m actually right" is it just me or is there something fishy about the language used there?

03/25/2019 06:04:56

Wii U: ShadowRhyno

3DS: 0001-3329-7885

asa said:When did this become a reason for my lynch?

I actually said that deliberately to make you respond since I knew you'd read it. It worked.

asa said:Let me rephrase to make it more clear -
I don't think that a 4-4 setup is mathematically possible. So I wasn't even considering the possibility of this.
Then you and a few others come along and are worried about the possibility of 4-4, which means that something has given you reason to believe that this is possible, suggesting to me that you have extra information.

I'm not too sure what both ways means? Do you get what I'm saying here

I get what you're saying, but you've already said a 4-4-8 is impossible and you've backed this up with evidence.

Therefore you're reading too much into this. The only way you could possibly conceive that I'm anti town due to this reasoning is if you now actually believe this game is a 4-4-8 setup.

Given the lack of votes against me I think it's highly unlikely to be the case. If the game really was 4-4-8 I would have gotten a lot more vote pressure against me by now.

asa said:I explained why I thought this was suspicious, and made an educated guess based on context why I think aero voted you.

Just chucking out a vote without explaining why doesn't really help town.

Even if YOU knew were why you were doing it you should still explain it (at the time of voting) so that the other players can decide if your reasoning for it is legitimate and valid.

Otherwise it just comes across like you're being lazy / taking easy shots at players.

Were you hoping that by being coy you were going to illicit a reaction from me that would make me look anti town?

asa said:Yeah okay, I've never played in a multi-mafia game before.
I have no idea how the balance plays out hence why I looked into similar setups

Holy shit, neither have I. Hence why I suggested the possibility of 4-4-8 with a degree of naivety.

I don't regret it though considering the discussion it created out of it.

asa said:I dont like how you're trying to flip this back onto those who are suspicous of you either.
"Low key play", "if I"m actually right" is it just me or is there something fishy about the language used there?

It's just you.

If anything, the phrase "if I'm actually right" would indicate that I am town since I have no idea what the setup is.

If you happen to rate me so highly that you think I'd deliberately use language like this to appear more town then I appreciate the compliment, however it's pretty easy to naturally write these things when I don't need to lie about anything.

ThatLaggyPerson said:
also y'all need to stop posting walls, its just getting confusing

Blaze said:
How do you guys constantly post text walls i feel exhausted

Lol for what it's worth I don't even want to write walls where possible because I know most players are going to look at it and go "yeah fuck reading all that".

But I think it's important to respond to all the main points of what people are saying otherwise they think you're anti town for not responding to them.

Don't feel like everyone needs to post a wall or whatever to participate though, 3 or 4 players doing that is enough already.

03/25/2019 06:47:53

Blaze

41+ tourneys

Switch: SW-4733-6751-5217

Okay, i really wanna start posting more and become a better player instead of just a 'clueless townie'

03/25/2019 06:53:44

Wii U: ShadowRhyno

3DS: 0001-3329-7885

dean said:

Bijou said:
I've noticed that when a townie gets put through the pressure cooker they tend to lose heart and give up trying
I think the main players you've seen placed under actually noteable pressure to be lynched have been Laggy, LachlanF, Corvid, Krasic and the legendary HydroPimp (gone but nor forgotten), not exactly a group of tryhard players.

I laughed at this. Can't disagree with you on this, I'll take this on board in that case.

Blaze said:
Okay, i really wanna start posting more and become a better player instead of just a 'clueless townie'

Just throwing big posts around doesn't make you a good player. Ghost, Windkeeper, Aero and Jon are all examples of players who don't usually write massive walls of text but still have an impact on the game with what they contribute.

03/25/2019 07:00:10

asa

93+ tourneys

3DS: 0903-3023-5459

@bijou though
now that I've posted, do you actually have a reasoning for your vote on me?

03/25/2019 07:13:26

Wii U: ShadowRhyno

3DS: 0001-3329-7885

asa said:
@bijou though
now that I've posted, do you actually have a reasoning for your vote on me?

I think your play so far has been pretty questionable. The character claim thing at the start wasn't a great play but I suppose you wrote it off pretty easily by claiming you were shitposting.

Other than that I think you're trying to read too hard into what I'm doing and claiming it to be anti town which I find to be sketchy. However I do grant you that the primary reason I find this sketchy is because I know I'm town, therefore I'm suspicious on your trying to cast suspicion on me if that makes sense to you.

Obviously for everybody else though they don't have a confirmation of my alignment so it's easier for me to sit back and claim your play of calling me out is suspicious.

I find your general play to be somewhat annoying too because you seem to want to flex on other players about your own mafia ability. I'm not a fan of this, so I wouldn't mind seeing you get lynched just to spite you in general.

However having said this, if you're actually town aligned then I'd rather not lynch you since you do seem like a strong player. Lynching a townie is never ideal anyway, let alone one that can have strong contributions to town. Town needs all the good players it can get considering it's already under the pump having two mafia factions against it.

Pretty much all you've done so far is tunnel on me though, is there anyone else in particular that you feel we should be voting for today? I'm open to suggestion and do have a few others in mind myself.

03/25/2019 07:39:13

Wii U: Oceanblue44

dean said:

Maribro said:
I mean this is all well and good now that people have since posted about stuff but at the time was I really so wrong for calling them out? Yes they could have been holding things to their chest. Yes they could just be too lazy to explain (yeah that's really helpful to town). I don't see how me calling them out and encouraging them to go into more detail about why they've voted for Bijou is so wrong. Do you think I'm suss for this?
No, I don't think that this explicitely made you suspicious.
I raised this point to rebut you when you said that you were going to think harder about why people do what they do, which was a point you brought up to justify why you were acting differently from the last game to this one, and that you were trying EXTRA hard to help town win.
Why did you think: "Kinda gives me the feeling they both know something we don't???" What did you think that they know that we don't? (you seemed to come to the conclusion that they were probably mafia at this point judging by you adding them to your suss list; how did you come to this conclusion?)
I don't think it helps for you that when I prodded you about this first your response was "Look I can't explain everything, something just felt off about it.". This doesn't really help you in your endeavour to show that you were going to think harder about why people do what they do, or that you were trying extra hard for town.

Am I not allowed to keep things close to my chest or is that something reserved only for asa and Aero? Do I have to explain everything I'm thinking and feeling on day 1 but that doesn't apply to other people? I'm not really sure why there's different rules for different people here but okay, I'll just tell you.

I think Aero and asa suspect that Bijou is mafia because of what he said about the game setup (they think he knows something). I think Aero and asa therefore know something about the game setup themselves (maybe homebrew townies with setup information? Who the fuck knows in this game) but maybe I'm barking up the wrong tree completely. This is all very convoluted and probably just me being too suss of people that I'm usually suss of (Aero mainly).

dean said:

Maribro said:
I don't recall thinking anything Bijou said being particularly suspicious. I'll give you strange but I don't think any of it was necessarily suggestive that he is an anti-town player. Talking about game set up just made him look kinda naïve to me.
And you think that there was no way that ANYONE else in the game could have interpreted his statements as even slightly suspicion-worthy? I find this very hard to believe.

Yeah maybe but they could have explained why or something still. Maybe with quotes and maybe with a post detailing what exactly was suss. Nah but they're holding cards to their chest right, that's fine 🙄.

dean said:

Maribro said:
Well they didn't attract much attention did they? I'm the only one that called them out on it.
It seemed like a pretty soft call-out - you didn't ask them any questions or vote for them it was just kind of like "hey you guys did this and I thought it was weird".

That's just my bad I guess, most of my focus in the last few days of this phase has just been focused on defending myself from you rather than actually scumhunting. It's been a pretty whatever last few days, very little has happened besides our debate and now it's too late for me to really pressure either of them beyond what's already happening with asa. I'll probably move my vote there anyways.

dean said:

Maribro said:
I also explained what I meant by that apparent "contradiction" and you've seemingly ignored it and brought it up again.
Yes, because I disagreed with your interpretation. "I'm going to think about it and go with whatever I decide in that moment."? That's most certainly not how I interpreted the two statements.
I think that if you're "clearly announcing" to the thread that you're going to be playing weird then you'd want to do it in a way that brings about less misunderstandings, not in a "I'm going to be analysing posts and votes" -> gets called out for being weird -> "btw I'm going to be following my instincts" kind of way.

You disagreed with my interpretation of my own words? Okay sick, end of argument there I guess… How in the hell am I meant to actually debate you if you're just going to disagree with what I've literally come out and defined? Like seriously what's my counterplay to that? Well let's have a look at something you've said…

dean said:
I suppose if I'm well enough to be at work I'm well enough to mafia.

I disagree with your interpretation of the word well here. I think if you're well enough to work and earn a living (usually a pretty low bar for casual workers like myself) then your wellness for a hobby or something should be a higher bar than what you've clearly set yourself. Smh dean, I think you need to get some rest.

dean said:

Maribro said:
If we're hardcore metagaming about the previous game, can I remind you that you scumread me for at least the majority of the game. Pretty much until BattleDolphin got lynched and subsequently confirmed me as town. I distinctly remember you calling for town to lynch me over him in the spectator chat.
This is completely irrelevant. I scumread you when you were town in one game (a game in which you HAVE acted differently to the current game! a game in which I didn't even participate in!) so that means you're town this game? Am I supposed to never scumread you again?
Why did you respond by trying to make me and/or the town question my scumreading skills instead of addressing the argument?

Why are you bringing up my argument for being hesitant to town lean Windkeeper in a previous game? Am I supposed to never townread Windkeeper again? Why did you make me and/or town question my townreading skills instead of addressing my actual posts. You're very picky about some things aren't you dean? Metagaming is fine when it's about me and my post history in other games but not when it's about you and your ability to scumread/townread me? Okay. Fair enough.

dean said:

Maribro said:
I mean, I can find more examples of my posts suggesting I'm listening to others' points of view about last game and learning from that. Would you like me to quote those for you?
My argument was that when you were called out for acting strangely you said that you had CLEARLY announced MULTIPLE times that you said that you were going to be acting differently. If these announcements are so cryptic that I didn't pick them up, or that you hadn't mentioned them up to this point, then I don't think they're worth discussing.

It's easy to miss things, even when they're in clear view so maybe I'll just quote em up for you now :)))))))

asa's analysis of day 1 posting from last game really inspired to think harder about why people do what they do

Asa spoke with Blaze about day 1 votes not being random.

What really caught my eye about this post was something aero said about windkeeper last game. Something along the lines of “mafia don’t give out information for free”. This post just struck me as too informative too early on to be from a scummy scum mcscum.

I’m still very much learning my way around this game and using things others have said about previous games is helping me navigate this one.

Okay look, I'm trying to trust my instincts and reads a bit more. Last game my read was JEANS = mafia, but I didn't trust it enough to actively defend Windkeeper on the day he was lynched.

As you can see, plenty of examples of me talking about thinking through things differently to usual. Maybe your eyes need testing, been staring at screens too long?

dean said:

Maribro said:
Don't recall you asking me why, would love to see where this was asked.
Second post from the top on Page 9. LITERALLY the first word in the post.

Ah yes a single word with no attaching sentence or anything. Easy to miss, as you've clearly missed entire sentences of mine. I'll call us even on this one ;).

dean said:

Maribro said:
Anyways, if you wanna know why I'm coming into this game with a different mindset, it's simple. I don't think I'm a very good mafia player in the grand scheme of things. My game on MU and seeing people discuss the last game on here kinda showed me I don't really look at things as in depth as I could. I absolutely glossed over a lot of important things and for example, I don't think I should have allowed Windkeeper to be lynched on the day he was lynched. That was definitely a misplay from me tbh, I should have tried much harder to stop that from happening cos I KNEW that JEANS was scum. I wanna get better at this game and improve and learn. Idk how this wasn't obvious through some of my posts already but yeah, this is why.
Mafia Universe was not a recent occurance at all, and you mentioned in the thread for the last game that all you had to do was lynch Windkeeper and JEANS in any order to win. That was 100% correct and that's exactly what you did, and now you're sadboying about it?

How many games of mafia have there been on this site since MU? Anyways, it just came into my head because of post Vanilla Mafia analysis and I realised I was actually pretty shit at this game and I don't wanna be! Well, all we really had to do was lynch JEANS. Lynching windkeeper was unfortunate and frustrating for me. I'm annoyed it happened tbh. I'm not sadboying and I resent the implication.

dean said:

Bijou said:
Could I just point out that I'm not even trying to defend Maribro? I'm not really trying to argue he's town moreso than have a conversation with you explaining why I've been town reading him so far.
Alright then, I will take the liberty to not respond to this post and move on with the game because my head can only take so much Maribro.
Actually I guess I will say one thing.

Guessing you won't respond much to this post, so I debated making it. Hopefully this debate doesn't continue next day and we can scum hunt more efficiently. Townies targeting townies is not good for town!

Hope this post wasn't too rude/personal either, I'm just sick of going over and over the same points. I do hope the sass is appreciated though!

FUCK didn't end a quote at some point :( POST RUINED

03/25/2019 08:24:51

Wii U: ShadowRhyno

3DS: 0001-3329-7885

I'm pretty sure the mods will let you edit your post to fix the formatting Maribro lol. They allowed Asa to do it before.

03/25/2019 07:53:06

Wii U: Oceanblue44

I have slid into Invisi's dms PiranhaPlant

Any thoughts on my last post bijou?

03/25/2019 08:18:48

Invisi

224+ tourneys

Switch: SW-3299-6796-0489

Sure, go find the missing endquote

03/25/2019 08:18:59

Wii U: Oceanblue44

Much love Chris!!!!

03/25/2019 08:25:11

LtLongshot

74+ tourneys

Switch: SW-8346-1530-3039

Wii U: LtLongshot

The walls keep getting longer and longer

03/25/2019 08:26:58