World of Light themed Mafia - Game Over, Dark Faction Wins!

Extra said:

So now I'm really interested in those that have been starting bandwagons and the people who support them quickly.

if you were really interested in this, why'd it take prompting from both my vote and maribro in order for you to express it?

I mostly wanted to wait a bit longer for other bandwagons to go off before i got more evidence before I came out with this post. But thats fair if you are sus of me with the lack of posting/agro. I actually thought the post could come off as a bit much. Dean actually used a google doc you need access to use as evidence the mad lad

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03/23/2019 06:29:07

Maribro said:
dean, I think you're simply trying to metagame me too hard. I'm coming into this game with a different mindset to previous games, which I've openly announced several times.

Why?

I think I can see two statements in your posts about “different mindset”:
“asa's analysis of day 1 posting from last game really inspired to think harder about why people do what they do”
“Okay look, I'm trying to trust my instincts and reads a bit more.”
I’m not sure this is “openly announcing” and I think these two statements contradict themselves. You’re thinking about things more but you’re also going to trust your instincts more?

Maribro said:I ask you, why would I bother trying extra hard to read into people and understand their posts and votes beyond their face value if I was mafia? Do you think I'm scum hunting the other side?

”Extra hard”? The main reads you’ve made so far seem to be:
Jon’s scummy because he voted for someone within the first eight hours
Aero and asa were scummy because they voted for Bijou without explaining why. WHY did you think that they did this? Why did you think that “they both know something we don't“?
You’ve called JEANS scummy but you’re not on your own there and you’ve picked on the inactives a bit.
I don’t mean to be rude but you haven’t shown to me at this stage that you’re trying extra hard to read into people.

Also uhh to simplify things the way mafia wins is by getting players not on their team lynched. Opposing mafiosi work fine in that regard. Why wouldn’t a mafioso work hard to try to win?

Maribro said:Again, I don't really know how to respond to your pressure exactly and if it comes to a war of words between us, I will surely lose.

Yes, that’s OK. I think you’re suspicious because you’ve acted weird and you’ve admitted to acting weird so it’s hard to defend. But I’m only worth one vote so if I can’t convince eight other players then oh well.

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03/23/2019 07:09:18

dean said:
If you think Maribro isn’t mafia that’s cool I’m not trying to control the way people think but if you’re going to shift suspicion away from him I’d want way stronger reasons than this.

I'm not trying to shift suspicion anywhere, I just think he's not playing with any particular confidence which indicates to me that he's playing on his own.

That google doc is useless to me at the moment though by the way, apparently I don't have permission to view this. I have requested access to view it.

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03/23/2019 07:09:36

LtLongshot said:
Dean actually used a google doc you need access to use as evidence the mad lad

Does it work now? My laptop broke and I don’t know how to do this on phone. I think I fixed it.

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03/23/2019 07:13:18

dean said:

LtLongshot said:
Dean actually used a google doc you need access to use as evidence the mad lad

Does it work now? My laptop broke and I don’t know how to do this on phone.

I think I fixed it.

Yeah it works now. I've flicked through the Fire Emblem posts so far and you've confirmed what I was thinking.

He was taking much more control in that game, leading discussion and generally coming across very town. This was because he was mafia and knew who all the mafia players were, hence it gave him the freedom to lead town discussion how he wanted it.

So far I don't think he has done any leading in this game whatsoever, he's playing completely differently to when he was mafia. I'm not trying to change your mind or anything by the way Dean but I just don't see his general play in this game to line up with previous games where he was anti town.

dean said:
This also isn’t a great game for scum to be “confident” because they only know half the anti-town players...

Also yeah, granted this game is different due to not knowing (theoretically) half of the anti town players, he just gives me the impression he's alone. And even if I did agree with your assessment I would find lodging a case to lynch Maribro day one without any solid evidence as very difficult considering he's typically considered a strong player.

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03/23/2019 07:31:08

dean said:

Maribro said:
dean, I think you're simply trying to metagame me too hard. I'm coming into this game with a different mindset to previous games, which I've openly announced several times.

Why?

I think I can see two statements in your posts about “different mindset”:
“asa's analysis of day 1 posting from last game really inspired to think harder about why people do what they do”
“Okay look, I'm trying to trust my instincts and reads a bit more.”
I’m not sure this is “openly announcing” and I think these two statements contradict themselves. You’re thinking about things more but you’re also going to trust your instincts more?

2/9 posts I've made this game, which includes meme posts and me telling you I'm going to respond to you later. Idk that's a decent ratio right?

I don't see how thinking and instincts necessarily contradict themselves. What I mean is I'm going to think about it and go with whatever I decide in that moment. Not to over think and not to simply gloss over things without critically analysing them. I hope this makes sense.

dean said:

Maribro said:I ask you, why would I bother trying extra hard to read into people and understand their posts and votes beyond their face value if I was mafia? Do you think I'm scum hunting the other side?

”Extra hard”? The main reads you’ve made so far seem to be:
Jon’s scummy because he voted for someone within the first eight hours
Aero and asa were scummy because they voted for Bijou without explaining why. WHY did you think that they did this? Why did you think that “they both know something we don't“?
You’ve called JEANS scummy but you’re not on your own there and you’ve picked on the inactives a bit.
I don’t mean to be rude but you haven’t shown to me at this stage that you’re trying extra hard to read into people.

That's not my reasoning for why I think Jon's scummy. I think Jon's scummy because he chose an easy target that had made limited contributions and he was trying to see if he could get a bandwagon going. Blaze at that stage had made more contribution than someone like say, MrL. Idk why Jon would target Blaze over MrL besides the fact that Blaze is a player that will find it much harder than Ben to defend himself. It just struck me as a REALLY cheap vote.

Look I can't explain everything, something just felt off about it. These two players know better than to vote for "No particular reason" beyond the first vote in the game. It just strikes me as far too convenient that they're both either unwilling to explain their vote or have actually both voted for a strong player, who hadn't done anything particularly suspicious, for "No particular reason". You tell me dean, why don't YOU find it suspicious?

I've already explained my reasoning for finding JEANS scummy and people have since parroted that point of view quite a bit, after telling me directly that I was reading into it too much so yeah, whatever. I don't really know why you brought up that others had said this when I was one of, if not the first to call JEANS out on this. I also disagree that I've "picked on the inactives" that wording bugs me, I've encouraged them to post. I haven't voted on any of them besides MrL, whom I voted for before he was deemed inactive.

dean said:
Also uhh to simplify things the way mafia wins is by getting players not on their team lynched. Opposing mafiosi work fine in that regard. Why wouldn’t a mafioso work hard to try to win?

I'm saying I'm working hard to help town win, a mafiosi wouldn't be doing that.

dean said:

Maribro said:Again, I don't really know how to respond to your pressure exactly and if it comes to a war of words between us, I will surely lose.

Yes, that’s OK. I think you’re suspicious because you’ve acted weird and you’ve admitted to acting weird so it’s hard to defend. But I’m only worth one vote so if I can’t convince eight other players then oh well.

Well I hope your suspicion of me doesn't last into later phases, I'll be damned if I have to keep defending myself against you for the rest of the game. It's damn tiring.

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03/23/2019 08:21:54

Maribro said:
Look I can't explain everything, something just felt off about it. These two players know better than to vote for "No particular reason" beyond the first vote in the game. It just strikes me as far too convenient that they're both either unwilling to explain their vote or have actually both voted for a strong player, who hadn't done anything particularly suspicious, for "No particular reason". You tell me dean, why don't YOU find it suspicious?

For why they would vote for Bijou together and not be suspicious?
I’ve got the benefit of hindsight on my side so I’m not sure how genuine I come across.
a) They were holding their cards close to their chest for the time being (which we can see now was what asa was doing)
b) They were too lazy to explain (Aerodrome)
c) They didn’t want to get their head ripped off by Bijou in a debate (Aero’s probably here as well)

This happened a bit after some back-and-forth between Bijou and I in which he was obviously saying some strange things (if there are eight mafiosi in this game I’ll set an akubra on fire). Most of the thoughts that asa outlined in his big post actually went through my head at some point; I just didn’t draw the conclusion that Bijou was mafia from it at this point of time.

Did you read the exchange between Bijou and I and think that Bijou said absolutely nothing suspicion-worthy?

So you thought that because they hid their reasons for voting that they would be suspicious? If you think that they are among the most likely to be mafia, can you explain why they would attract attention to themselves in this way?

(where the HELL is part 2 btw asa? It’s been nearly three days and I know you hate inactivity)

Maribro said:
Well I hope your suspicion of me doesn't last into later phases, I'll be damned if I have to keep defending myself against you for the rest of the game. It's damn tiring.

That’s OK I haven’t lived beyond night three before I don’t think this game will be an exception.

Bijou said:
He was taking much more control in that game

I think the only “taking control” was his posts about not quickhammering. Unless this was the only thing you were referring to?

I mean look at that post 5 (his main post that isn’t fluff or “don’t quickhammer”, apart from post 8):
“kinda odd really”
“pretty suspicious”
“Kinda disagree”
“Kinda suss”
“Kinda unfair”
“kinda suspicious”
“maybe I'm wrong”
And like three paragraphs that trail off with ellipses. This isn’t confident language.

Is this game from three years ago the main reason you’re townreading him? What have you thought about the exchanges between Maribro and I in THIS game?

Bijou said:
I would find lodging a case to lynch Maribro day one without any solid evidence as very difficult considering he's typically considered a strong player.

Lynch the player that you think is most likely to be mafia. There’s no need to overcomplicate things.

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03/23/2019 10:34:30

Yeah I don't think voting for people and not giving reasons on day 1 is particularly suspicious.

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03/23/2019 10:40:41

It's sus if you just try to start a bunch of bandwagons or join other bandwagons without much thought.

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03/23/2019 11:45:45

what are peoples thoughts on laggy?

ThatLaggyPerson said:

BattleDolphin said:
Jeans was most definitely super salty about last game, so I imagine that post is residual salt towards asa/also a meme
I probably wouldn't think too hard into it?

i assume a couple of people saw his role, and jeans, being the exception wants him gone. i agree, it could just be a salt/meme, but maybe hes pushing it because it negatively affects him?

im not gonna go any deeper on this, just my two cents.

ThatLaggyPerson said:
these walls are higher than the wall in mexico.

anyways, day 1 has really been about punishing people and trying to eye out any inch of a mistake some makes. obviously everyone is waiting until asa posts his part 2, hopefully soon.

idk what to say though, everyone else has said my thoughts at this point

why are you so reluctant to give your thoughts or information? are you hiding something? the second quote is also after MrL said his part about not being able to contribute, so it looks suss that you wanna use the same excuse that he did.

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03/23/2019 12:22:24

dean said:(where the HELL is part 2 btw asa? It’s been nearly three days and I know you hate inactivity)

Yes I'm still waiting.

dean said:And like three paragraphs that trail off with ellipses. This isn’t confident language.

It's not the language in this game, it's that he is directing town discussion and being one of the main posters making plays for lynching etc.

I feel like you're getting hung up on this "game three years ago" kind of business. The point is that in my eyes I've always seen Maribro as the sort of player who leads town discussion and is active in pushing lynches.

Maybe I've been misreading him all this time? Do you not feel he has historically done this? Perhaps I'm overestimating him because he was a pivotal leader in the game I won mafia in him with, but I feel like his play in recent games has been much different than he used to be. And I think the reason for this is because in his early games he was typically anti town.

dean said:Is this game from three years ago the main reason you’re townreading him? What have you thought about the exchanges between Maribro and I in THIS game?

The main reason I'm town reading him is because he seems much weaker to me than he usually is. Normally I see him as a very dangerous and capable player.

So far he hasn't really even been able to hold a candle to you in terms of debating. In fact I feel like on certain points he's actually giving up on even trying to argue with you.

Granted I'm not sure I've ever seen him debate with you though. Maybe this would have happened back in the earlier games too if you had been a part of them.

I don't know, is it unusual to town read someone who is seemingly struggling? I just don't see him as a threat at the moment and I don't feel like your main arguments against him prove he's anti town.

I mean I suppose it IS day one. Unless we get another 'Hey guys we should be careful voting in case of hammerers' type of scenario we'll have to roll the dice on someone. But I don't think Maribro is the right day 1 lynch target.

dean said:Lynch the player that you think is most likely to be mafia. There’s no need to overcomplicate things.

Um, yeah. Hence why I've voted for Asa.

His play so far has been sketchy at best, then he writes a massive novel (which I responded to completely) and disappears for three days.

Very cool.

Bijou said:
It's not the language in this game, it's that he is directing town discussion and being one of the main posters making plays for lynching etc.

^^^ Referring to the game in the past that you're referring to by the way. Realised after I posted that this could be misread as what I'm saying he was doing so far this game.

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03/23/2019 12:31:13

Hey guys, been unexpectedly busy these last few days.
Will catch up late tomorrow night or on Monday

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03/23/2019 14:28:45

I feel like JonCheee is playing a bit weird/different to usual? He's accused like half the game and then there's never any discussion (except him voting for blaze), and then he just moves on to the next one?
He also totally ignored the big discussion with Dean and co. which is kinda odd imo

I'm not really sure what to think of Maribro atm, I do feel like he usually responds to pressure differently when he's town (it's usually much more agro) but that's based off games from 3 years ago AND he's said he's taking a different standpoint on playing (or whatever his words specifically were) so I think he's safe for now. Also after the ult game Dean is scary af. And why don't you like my tag >:(

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03/24/2019 04:41:35

by "to usual" are you comparing it to the 3 year old mafia game and the ultimate game? i dont remember anything from that fire emblem game (other than i won hee hee) so you should honestly not try metagame (is this the right term?) like that.

in the ultimate game i wanted to play back and just see what other people did but there were a lot of cases where i felt nothing was happening and it was kinda boring tbh, so this game i want to try make some plays and try get things going.

its day one, is it that bad that i'm trying to get information to help us?

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03/24/2019 05:56:52

BattleDolphin said:
He also totally ignored the big discussion with Dean and co. which is kinda odd imo

Nah he's smart, you don't want to get involved in it trust me. lol.

BattleDolphin said:
And why don't you like my tag >:(

If it makes you feel better I think your tag is cool. A Battle Dolphin sounds badass.

JonCheee said:
its day one, is it that bad that i'm trying to get information to help us?

I think your voting has been fine since you're keeping inactive players in check while all the "big long posty" sort of players are too busy scum hunting each other.

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03/24/2019 07:09:30

Bijou said:

BattleDolphin said:
And why don't you like my tag >:(

If it makes you feel better I think your tag is cool. A Battle Dolphin sounds badass.

<3 And nah it was just based on the ultimate game really

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03/24/2019 08:44:20

Hello I am alive. This week was really full on for me but I shouldn't be nearly as busy until the weekend this week so I'll be able to catch up on everything.

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03/24/2019 12:50:03

im alive too zzzzz waiting for asa part 2 zzzzzzz

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03/24/2019 13:06:22

I'm getting a similar weird vibe from JonChee as Battledolphin tbh.

I'm wary whenever people are like "I'm taking a different line of approach this game," as it's basically an attempt to sow doubt into any reads other players make. Which is most important to mafia so that any slight tells they might give off are ignored.

Maribro made a similar comment that he's mixing up his playstyle so I'm wary of him too.

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03/24/2019 21:41:31

Activity Update - 4 days to deadline

Signup Order | Last Post Day/time | Posts since last Update | Current Day Posts
- Blaze Tuesday 0 5
- BattleDolphin Sunday 2 11
- Asa Saturday 1 11
- Maribro Saturday 4 10
- Boozer Friday 1 5
- Dean Saturday 7 18
- Aerodrome Saturday 4 22
- Windkeeper Sunday 1 7
- Laggy Friday 1 5
- Bijou Sunday 7 32
- JEANS Sunday 1 13
- Extra Saturday 2 5
- Ghost Monday 2 7
- Mr L Friday 2 5
- LtLongshot Saturday 4 9
- JonCheee Sunday 3 12

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03/24/2019 22:34:51

I'm bored now can we just lynch someone

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03/24/2019 23:05:49

Aerodrome said:
I'm bored now can we just lynch someone

I'm happy to just lynch Asa.


Legitimately if he doesn't make his much anticipated part 2 post by tonight as he promised then I reckon he's had enough time.

Ghostbone said:
I'm wary whenever people are like "I'm taking a different line of approach this game," as it's basically an attempt to sow doubt into any reads other players make. Which is most important to mafia so that any slight tells they might give off are ignored.

Can't disagree, you make a good point.

We're starting to get close to our deadline, is there anyone in particular you want to pressure while there is still time?

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03/24/2019 23:50:50

It's good to be back at a computer.

Bijou said:
It's not the language in this game, it's that he is directing town discussion and being one of the main posters making plays for lynching etc.

I think you're seeing things. He made one post which was basically a summary of what had happened + "hey guys here's my kinda opinion on things".
And I think you've shifted the goalposts from your original argument. Your original statement was "The games where Maribro plays the most confident are the ones where he is mafia because he has game information to work with and as a result he is more sure of his posting.", and when I asked you to explain you gave some quotes and said "This is all rather self-doubting language honestly." and "When I played with him in his mafia team he wasn't like this at all, all his posts were confident and didn't use uncertain language like this.". So is language important or not?

Bijou said:
I feel like you're getting hung up on this "game three years ago" kind of business. The point is that in my eyes I've always seen Maribro as the sort of player who leads town discussion and is active in pushing lynches.

Maybe I've been misreading him all this time? Do you not feel he has historically done this? Perhaps I'm overestimating him because he was a pivotal leader in the game I won mafia in him with, but I feel like his play in recent games has been much different than he used to be. And I think the reason for this is because in his early games he was typically anti town.

He was town in his first four games.
If we want to get into this then DID call out JonCheee, Aerodrome and asa within the first few days of the game starting. Was he not active enough in pushing these lynches for you?

Bijou said:
So far he hasn't really even been able to hold a candle to you in terms of debating. In fact I feel like on certain points he's actually giving up on even trying to argue with you.

...

I don't know, is it unusual to town read someone who is seemingly struggling? I just don't see him as a threat at the moment and I don't feel like your main arguments against him prove he's anti town.

You see, if I'm asking him questions about why he's acting strangely or contradicting himself and he doesn't answer them well then I think the natural inclination would be to scumread that person, and it seems you've chosen to do the opposite.
I think that if he was innocent and all his actions have been in good faith then he'd be more capable of defending them?

----------

I feel like I've convinced myself through having this debate but that's not much if I haven't convinced other people. In case people were tl;dring the exchange between Maribro and I, I'll summarise my main points here:

1. He's sucked-up to Windkeeper with very little prompting and town-read him in this game which is a complete flip in mentality from his previous game where he's said "Always see him as a danger due to never losing a game (I don't think??) so I'm cautious. Hasn't done anything suss yet but I have a hard time trusting him because of his gigantic power level." and "Much like MrL, has acted in a very townie fashion. I like his posts and I think they come from a good place. I just find it hard to trust such a strong and versatile player."

2. When prodded about said strange behaviour he claims to have "openly announced" that he's coming into this game with a different mindset. He has two posts which might indicate this: an early post in which he was "really inspired to think harder about why people do what they do" and a post many days later (after I called him out for acting strangely) that says "I'm trying to trust my instincts and reads a bit more."
2a. When I asked him WHY he's coming into this game with a different mindset he seems to have ignored me.
2b. I think that these statements are, to an extent, mutually exclusive; if I type "instinctive" into Google I receive a result "done without conscious thought" so I would say that it would be hard to trust your instincts and also think hard, so he was probably just saying whatever was convenient at the time to justify his behaviour.

3. His other main rebuttal seems to be that he's trying extra hard to help town win which is both extremely vague and has little evidence, especially in this game where lynching opposing mafiosi is an excellent way for a mafioso to "help town win" while helping his own faction.

But if I can't get votes here then I'll chill for a bit and then move on, maybe I'll wait to see if Maribro responds to my post from Saturday night since it seems he wasn't online yesterday.

Invisi said:
- Blaze Tuesday 0 5

Chris I think this dude needs a good prodding he hasn't posted since Wednesday morning.

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03/25/2019 01:48:32

Bijou said:
We're starting to get close to our deadline, is there anyone in particular you want to pressure while there is still time?

Theres not really enough to go on for the people I'm leaning towards scum on, so voting one of the inactives (blaze, laggy, asa) is probably a good line of play at this stage.

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03/25/2019 01:56:01

Why is Blaze so inactive? He did nothing but spam posts in previous games when he was town. MAFIA??

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03/25/2019 02:10:03